Posts by defender of truth

21

Geoffrey Jackson on "corporal punishment"

by opusdei1972 in

here is another jackson's misleading answer, from the transcript of august 14 :.

25 q. do you accept corporal punishment?

29 a. not not personally, no, and not as an organisation 30 we don't encourage it.

defender of truth

This is still on the online Insight Book.

Insight Book
ROD, STAFF
Uses. Rods or staffs were used...to punish children, slaves, or others (Ex 21:20 [“stick,” NW]; Pr 10:13; 23:13, 14; Ac 16:22)

Parental authority.
“Rod” is used also to symbolize the authority of parents over their children.
The book of Proverbs makes many references to this authority, the term symbolizing all forms of discipline used, including the literal rod used for chastisement.
The parent is actually responsible before God to exercise this rod, controlling the child.
If the parent fails in this, he will bring ruination and death to his child and disgrace and God’s disapproval to himself also. (Pr 10:1; 15:20; 17:25; 19:13)
“Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.”
“Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol itself.” (Pr 22:15; 23:13, 14)
In fact, “the one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”—Pr 13:24; 19:18; 29:15; 1Sa 2:27-36.
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003754#h=4

12

Something that's bugging me. Why didn't the ARC ask Jackson..

by defender of truth in

..about child molesters being reappointed to positions of trust?

also, whether they would consider using 'worldly' expertise when assessing potential risk?.

why was spinks questioned as to whether the organisation should use professionals to assess whether a pedophile is fit to rejoin the jw community (or whether they are still a danger), let alone be reappointed.. and yet jackson, one of the policy makers in the org, was not even spoken to about pedophiles being judged as 'repentant' and even safe to be reappointed, by incompetent elders??.

defender of truth

Exactly, Scully.

With no professional assessments involved in the disciplinary or reinstatement procedures, any predatory pedophile can fool the local uneducated elders, and end up with the trust of families in the organisation.. As a MS, Elder, or respected publisher in 'good standing'.

This is something that should concern the public and the Australian government.

So when will the matter be raised to the Governing Body? They need to involve professionals!! (And never reappoint molesters iin my view)

I'd love it if someone would ask the ARC this, someone who can speak directly to them..

40

Petition for U.S. AG investigation.

by freemindfade in

not sure if anything will come of this.

but i signed it.. https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse?recruiter=363165656&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink.

defender of truth

Sorry Flipper.. But that means 100,000 in 30 days.. :(

41

Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?

by The Searcher in

mr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.

children.

this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.

defender of truth

^^ What do you say to that, SimonSays??

41

Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?

by The Searcher in

mr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.

children.

this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.

defender of truth

Save this quote:

Insight Book
ROD, STAFF
Uses. Rods or staffs were used...to punish children, slaves, or others (Ex 21:20 [“stick,” NW]; Pr 10:13; 23:13, 14; Ac 16:22)
Parental authority.
“Rod” is used also to symbolize the authority of parents over their children.
The book of Proverbs makes many references to this authority, the term symbolizing all forms of discipline used, including the literal rod used for chastisement.
The parent is actually responsible before God to exercise this rod, controlling the child.
If the parent fails in this, he will bring ruination and death to his child and disgrace and God’s disapproval to himself also. (Pr 10:1; 15:20; 17:25; 19:13)
“Foolishness is tied up with the heart of a boy; the rod of discipline is what will remove it far from him.”
“Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die. With the rod you yourself should beat him, that you may deliver his very soul from Sheol itself.” (Pr 22:15; 23:13, 14)
In fact, “the one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”—Pr 13:24; 19:18; 29:15; 1Sa 2:27-36.

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003754#h=4

69

Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?

by defender of truth in

with all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.

here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.

the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.

defender of truth

Well done UmbertoEcho..

You're an inspiration to us all :)

49

Phone call straight after the Royal Commission

by umbertoecho in

straight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang.

it was one of the people who are working on it.

firstly she established if i was alright and did i want to talk.. i said i was too tired and unhappy that geoffrey jackson managed to do some preaching....she said they were aware of that.

defender of truth

I'd just like to put UmbertoEcho's excellent OP side-by-side with a Jehovah's Witness view from a pro JW forum..

If you have a similar sense of humour to me, it may amuse you.. Anyway.

UmbertoEcho:

Straight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang. It was one of the people who are working on it. Firstly she established if I was alright and did I want to talk.
I said I was too tired and unhappy that Geoffrey Jackson managed to do some preaching....
She said they were aware of that.
Then I said.."You know he was lying don't you, he was lying about the role of the GB in many subtle ways and not so subtle ways?" .............
"Oh we knew that all along,we had the documents right here with us".
I then said...." You do realize he is one of seven men who vote on policy and they don't sit around prayerfully as Jackson maintained, they just vote and sometimes the deciding factor is perhaps one vote?"
She said she knew that too, and for me not to be too worried about the commission being fooled, for they were not fooled at all.

I asked her if she really thought for one minute that the society is feeling bad about the plight of sexually molested children? And " You do know this is all about money don't you?".....
Yes, she said they all knew it was about showing a façade of decency and holding onto money.

...OH!!!! Dear old Geoff made a few enemies today when he talked about a mother grooming her child to accuse the father of molestation....They thought it a dirty cheap shot..!

View of a Jehovah's Witness:

I personally think Brother Jacksons testimony was the best thing that has ever happened in relation to the issue of child abuse within our organisation.

He skilfully and humbly answered their questions using the bible and sound reasoning. He clarified various issues and corrected the commissions wrong assumptions.
He humbly acknowledged where our organisation could do better to help the trauma of abuse victims.
He expressed his love for and sympathy for the individuals who were abused and who gave testimony to the commission.
He gave a fine witness about the governing body's love for all of the sheep especially those who have been hurt in such a bad way and their desire "more than they will ever know" to fix anything that could be causing distress for the sheep.

Brother Jackson was extremely respectful and humble.
Telling the lawyers and the chair how good some of their questions were and how he thought the commissions work would ultimately help the sheep and help the organisation deal with such a distressful and delicate problem and that they only viewed it as a good thing.
Just his demeanour seemed to breed respect and you could tell that come the end the commission all including the lawyers seemed to be happy with the information that they had got.
In fact a lot of their concerns had been addressed and so they could see that there would be a probable solution to many of their concerns,

I really liked the obvious concern Brother Jackson had for the abuse victims though and I think even though we all knew it, it was something that everybody needed to hear, including the abuse victims who were probably listening in.
I just get this feeling that after all that questioning, the brothers including the governing body are really going to do their best to iron out any problems there are and apply the commissions recommendations.
I think the testimony was a triumph for all parties

;)

41

Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?

by The Searcher in

mr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.

children.

this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.

defender of truth

4 For fear of being accused of abuse—physical, verbal, or emotional—some parents shy away from correcting their children. We need not harbour such fears. The word “discipline” as used in the Bible does not imply any kind of abuse or cruelty.
17. What lesson in parental correction is provided at Isaiah 28:26-29?
...Some children respond to just a glance from their parents, and nothing more is needed. Others require repeated reminders, while still others may need persuasion of a stronger kind.

http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001722?q=physical+discipline&p=par#h=6

On Discipline:
Dr. James Dobson wrote in The Strong-Willed Child (1978): “Corporal punishment in the hands of a loving parent is a teaching tool by which harmful behavior is inhibited.”
On the other hand, in an article adapted from the seventh edition of the popular book Baby and Child Care (1998), Dr. Benjamin Spock said: “Spanking teaches children that the larger, stronger person has the power to get his way, whether or not he is in the right.”
With regard to discipline, the Bible states: “The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.” (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment.
Proverbs 17:10 tells us: “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times.”
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006801?q=physical+discipline&p=par

God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001925

41

Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?

by The Searcher in

mr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.

children.

this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.

defender of truth

Well the quotes and links in my last post (credit to Searcher for the idea), clearly show that physical punishment is condoned..

Here's another one from 2001:

God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001925

Mind you, looking back at the transcript, he actually said that the organisation leaves it to the parents to decide, but that they do not encourage physical discipline.

He states that they have said in the literature time and time again, that 'discipline' in this scripture is not referring to corporal punishment, it's talking about a mental discipline (verbal correction and instruction, in other words).

Pages 19/20, read it yourself:

Royal Commission Geoffrey Jackson Transcript pdf

So, would anyone be kind enough to bring together all these Watchtower quotes and Jackson's words into one post? (Emailing it to the Commission would be really good, if anyone has time).

Thanks, Searcher, good topic.

69

Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?

by defender of truth in

with all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.

here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.

the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.

defender of truth

I think it will need a couple of real cases of abuse from the UK much like the Australian inquiry for them to get their teeth into if you want it to be featured.

Ever heard of Karen Morgan?

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/jehovah-cult-kicked-out---8891636

Let us hope.. :)